The Power of Authenticity in Attracting Talent and Changing Perceptions
In this episode of the Accountant’s Flight Plan Podcast, we interviewed fellow podcaster and reputation-building expert Rob Brown. Rob is the host of three accounting-related podcasts with a collective following of over 50,000 listeners and is the author of Build Your Reputation. He has spent over two decades working in business development and training for accountants, who he found to be passionate but often struggling with the interpersonal side of growing a firm.
After a life-changing stroke, Rob recalibrated his career to focus on helping accountants shape their stories, amplify their impact, and build personal brands that not only elevate their firms—but the profession as a whole.
Branding, Capacity, and the Future of the Profession
We explore the idea that one of the accounting profession’s biggest challenges is its image. When firms tell better, more authentic stories, it becomes easier to attract the right talent and build a workplace culture people want to be a part of. Personal branding isn’t just a vanity project—it’s a strategic investment in visibility, credibility, and future growth.
Oftentimes, a lack of capacity in many firms limits efforts to market, recruit, and innovate—emphasizing that sometimes, you have to say “no” to good things to make room for great opportunities.
Building a Personal Brand That Matters
Rob offers practical advice for CPAs who want to build their personal brand, starting with effective and clearly intentioned LinkedIn profiles and “About Us” sections on your firm’s website. The goal? Help prospective clients and employees see who you are and what your firm stands for—without relying on gimmicks. Rob emphasises that you will lose impact if you don’t tell your story because your people differentiate your firm from all the rest.
Our episode wraps with book recommendations, a few laughs, and a deeper conversation about the meaningful work accountants do as the “guardians of business.”
Connect with Rob
- LinkedIn: Rob Brown
- Website: Accounting Influencer’s Podcast
You can listen to the podcast on the player below or watch the latest episode here!
Timestamps:
00:21 – Introduction of Rob Brown and his background
2:40 – How Rob moved from education to accounting business development
8:00 – The talent crisis and why firm branding matters
12:40 – Authenticity and representation in your firm’s story
17:19 – How to build a personal brand (without burning out)
26:46 – Scaling, saying “no,” and making space for growth
32:27 – Who’s responsible for the profession’s brand?
37:00 – Brannon shares why he chose accounting
40:00 – Funny personal story from Rob
44:30 – Book recommendation: Deep Work by Cal Newport
The following is an automatically generated transcript and may contain errors:
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:08:00
Unknown
So ultimately, the message is the biggest differentiator of a firm is your people. And beyond that, why your people stay with you,
00:00:08:00 – 00:00:21:23
Unknown
I’m Brandon Poe, and this is the county’s Flight Plan podcast, where you can enjoy engaging conversations about mergers and acquisitions in accounting, practice management. Listen in on strategies to build a more fun and valuable accounting firm.
00:00:21:23 – 00:00:54:02
Unknown
Welcome to the Accounts Flight Plan podcast. I’m very excited to introduce Rob Brown, who, is a fellow podcaster. I’ve actually been on his show, I think, a time or two. And, just a little bit about Rob. He actually hosts three accounting podcast with a combined audience of 50,000 people in 153 countries. He is an accomplished expert on influence, reputation, employer, brand talent, career development, personal branding and executive presence.
00:00:54:04 – 00:01:18:17
Unknown
He’s based in Nottingham or Nottingham. If you’re American, then the American pronunciation in the UK, which is the home of Robin Hood, which, by the way, Rob, I don’t know if I told you this, but I actually lived right outside of Nottingham, in Cotgrave when I was a kid. My father taught at Trent, on a teacher exchange program, so that’s amazing.
00:01:18:17 – 00:01:42:17
Unknown
I know Cockroft really well. Ben. Yes. Lived there in 1982, 1981, 1982. So long time ago. But it’s an old mining village. It is. There were there were coal mines there when I was there as a child, so. Wow, how about that? We go back entwined in our ancestry. Yeah. Interesting. Rob has interviewed over a thousand guests.
00:01:42:17 – 00:02:08:19
Unknown
He’s moderated countless panels and chaired hundreds of international business conferences. He wrote the best selling book, Build Your Reputation, and had a TEDx talk, The Personal Brand of You, which has been viewed over 400,000 times on YouTube. He’s a stroke survivor, a committed Christian and black belt in kickboxing. He plays chess and backgammon and loves orange chocolate and is allergic to grapefruit.
00:02:08:19 – 00:02:32:07
Unknown
That’s one of the most interesting, bios we’ve gotten on the show. Well, it probably speaks to the fact that I’m not an accountant. An accountant. So I’m not known for their, anti boring nature because they’re all pretty staid and technical, but, I’m a former high school math teacher, so I do know a bit about the numbers, but yeah, certainly I’ve lived a little bit in my head on stage.
00:02:32:09 – 00:03:03:21
Unknown
So, the longer you live, usually the more colorful stories you’ve got. Pravin. Yeah. Thank you. So. Well. Perfect. Well, how did you get into, you know, running three podcasts and, becoming kind of, in this niche. Yeah. How did you get from a math teacher to this? Well, I, I did a few years teaching in Hong Kong and an international school and then a few years in the UK, but I found that I was teaching, coaching.
00:03:03:21 – 00:03:25:20
Unknown
In fact, I was coaching kids to pass tests. It’s just the way the education game went. And it ceased to become teaching foreign. So I looked at the route out of teaching. But you think, what are you good for? Because you’re quite institutionalized as a teacher? You’re fit for disseminating information to young children. And as much as that as an honorable profession.
00:03:25:22 – 00:03:58:05
Unknown
It changed for me. So I took a master’s part time in human resource development. And so I’ll go into training and development, and, and I fell into a training role with the guy that taught people how to network. And he was an ex Baker Tilly accountant, and he knew that world. So he worked with bankers, accounts, lawyers, technically super smart people, but often struggled with they selling themselves, networking, asking for referrals, selling themselves.
00:03:58:07 – 00:04:17:15
Unknown
And I did some associate work for him and found that I was good at it. And, I started my own business soon after that. You know, sometimes when the protege becomes the mentor and you overtake your master and it was a little bit like that, he was a bit older than me. And so for 20 years I ran a business development training company.
00:04:17:15 – 00:04:53:05
Unknown
And, accountants were the niche that I found most traction with great people, very smart, very caring. Want to do a great job? Passionately, looking after their clients, struggling a little bit with the conversational and the social side and selling themselves. But they all had to win business and create opportunities for the firm. And then in 2016, as I’m doing this and doing well, I had a stroke, a brain hemorrhage, which was very sudden, and it took me out of the game.
00:04:53:07 – 00:05:14:02
Unknown
Now I’ve lost some vision. I’m not allowed to drive. I take medication for epilepsy. But that’s controlled. But you, when you have things like that, you’ll appreciate it. It’s that fork in the road. You’ve got to recalibrate your life. Now, I’m still in the game, but I’m able to do less than I used to do. And I’m thankful that I can still work.
00:05:14:04 – 00:05:44:08
Unknown
However, that was the point at which I decided I needed to say no to a lot of things. And I went all out for accountants because there was one firm in the UK I was working with that were very loyal to me throughout my rehab, and so I started a podcast soon after that because this was me deep diving into one particular sector, and I realized that I didn’t have the credibility, the influence, the authority, the connections that I needed to to really make my mark.
00:05:44:10 – 00:06:06:01
Unknown
So I started a podcast and my thinking was, I’m just going to interview the most famous people I can come across, people like you, Brennan, that we did doing this a long time and asking them about the accounting world and what is going on. And that launched me into the Accounting Influencers podcast. I was doing it on Skype back then.
00:06:06:01 – 00:06:33:10
Unknown
I don’t know if you remember how early Skype was just on the idea. I used to use Skype to when I first started. Yeah, and then zoom came along, so it grew from there. But yes, that that is my game now. I, I interview people and I, I report on the stories and give some insight and commentary. And I suppose I’ve become an influencer in that regard because you interview so many people, you get so many insights and perspectives.
00:06:33:12 – 00:07:00:22
Unknown
It’s not just your own. You’re really good at that and you share those. So that’s the role that I’m in right now. And particularly I help accounting professionals to increase their own influence. So they’re more impactful. They’re better thought leaders. They put their opinions out there. They’ve got the confidence to create, showcase the domain expertise. So I interviewed them and turned that into video snippets and articles for them because, you know, accounting types, they hate being on a camera.
00:07:00:24 – 00:07:28:12
Unknown
They’re not comfortable with writing articles and thought leadership pieces. So I do that for them. And that’s an offshoot of our Accounting Influence podcast. Interesting. Well, what a what an amazing career path and story that you have. And, it’s very, very touching. Thank you for sharing that. I know that’s, that’s, that’s that’s an interesting road that you’ve have traveled.
00:07:28:14 – 00:07:47:16
Unknown
Well, it shapes us, doesn’t it? It definitely shapes us that the road that we’ve been down and everybody’s got a story to tell. And indeed, I encourage accountants. If I had a crusade for the accounting profession, it would be that we can all tell a better story. You don’t have to have gone to a tragedy. But, if you’re going to ask me what’s the biggest challenge accountants are facing right now?
00:07:47:16 – 00:08:15:23
Unknown
I believe it’s the brand of the profession. Yeah. I, I do think we have we have an image problem, and that’s, you know, which is, causing the talent shortage, which, kind of kind of prompts my question here about I want to talk a little bit about talent because, I feel like I talked to a lot of accountants who have somewhat not promoted.
00:08:15:23 – 00:08:54:17
Unknown
They don’t promote themselves or they don’t involve themselves in thought leadership activities. Because they have more business coming in and they can handle. Right? They, they they feel like, they’re overwhelmed. They’re overworked. So, I want to talk to you about, like, okay, how can, the skills that you’re trying to help people with, how does that translate into, attracting and keeping talent and and building that compelling employer brand?
00:08:54:19 – 00:09:30:18
Unknown
Like, how does that, how does that benefit accountants in that regard? Well, let’s go back to the accounting firm as an entity and ask the question, what separates one accounting firm from another? The topic of differentiation. You do interview so many accountants and you will go on websites and you’ll see them all saying the same thing, but the same values and the same colors and the same branding and the same fonts and the same values in the same about page, in the same service lines and features and benefits and promises and everything else.
00:09:30:18 – 00:09:55:21
Unknown
And it it’s really difficult not just for clients to discern the difference between the good in the great firms, but for talent to do the same. If you are looking for maybe forever firm, if you’re transitional and you’ve been around a long time and you’re looking for a firm that you can end your days with, are a firm where you’ve got some more meaning or influence or authority, or you’re part of something, or you’re building something off.
00:09:55:23 – 00:10:16:09
Unknown
You’re passing the baton on as a legacy to the next generation, or you’re starting out. You come in out of university or you’ve got a qualification and you’re looking for a place to land that will suit you, your personality, your skills. Then you’ve got some tough decisions to make, because you look at all the messages out there about come work for us or come and be a client of ours.
00:10:16:09 – 00:10:51:11
Unknown
And it’s it’s just noise. So when you say, why is it important that accountants and firms brand themselves? I’m not talking necessarily about corporate brands and a really good logo. I’m talking about a story that people can buy into, and the biggest and best tellers of stories are the individuals themselves that are in the story, the characters. So one of the most compelling things about an employer brand and a corporate brand attracts clients and employer brand attacks, talent says.
00:10:51:11 – 00:11:11:07
Unknown
This is a great place to work, and here’s why, and here’s why. Our people have stayed so long, and here’s why people joined us. And here’s what it’s like working here now. Firms don’t do that very well. They don’t focus on employer brand. The best advocates for the brand of an employer are the people in that in themselves.
00:11:11:09 – 00:11:28:05
Unknown
So I’ve done a series of interviews with people to talk about why their firm is the go to firm, why somebody should go and work for them, and what it’s like working for them, and what kind of leader they are and how they manage their teams and what culture means in their firm, and why they’re just a little bit different and unique.
00:11:28:05 – 00:11:49:21
Unknown
With that, to get beyond the fruit bowl and the unlimited time off, whatever it is, all these kind of gimmicks about trying to differentiate themselves. And ultimately it comes down to as a a talent prospect, looking at your firm and want to see somebody like me that tells a story I can relate to.
00:11:49:21 – 00:12:02:12
Unknown
So if you work for an accounting firm brand, and I’m seeing you putting your personal brand out there and telling you stories about you and expertise and the kind of work that you’re doing and why you love your job and why your firm’s a little bit different.
00:12:02:12 – 00:12:30:01
Unknown
I would look at that and think, that this guy sounds like me. This guy sounds like he’s on my wavelength. He’s speaking my language. He’s he understands my situation. I’ll give you an example. There’s a guy called Herschel Frierson that I interviewed a few years ago. He’s a partner at CRO, and he back then, I’m not sure if he is now was the president of the National Association of Black Accountants.
00:12:30:03 – 00:12:53:14
Unknown
NABA. And I said to him, what was it like coming up through the ranks? He said it was a problem, Rob, because there was nobody like me. There were no black accountants and you could insert your own disenfranchized entity there, like women or Hispanics or gays or put anything you like, and you want to see people like you are people where you want to be.
00:12:53:16 – 00:13:17:04
Unknown
And that means a story. You’ve got to create a narrative around that. And the best narratives come from individuals. It’s not from a brand. This is our firm, it’s from an individual. So fintech that’s real, that’s got some got some personalization about it. So ultimately, the answer to the question why should accountants brand themselves is that it’s great for business.
00:13:17:04 – 00:13:49:22
Unknown
It’s great for the firm. It’s great for attracting talent. It’s great for creating a story around your firm that just sets you apart, differentiates you in the marketplace for talent and for clients, and just says, this is this is a journey that’s worth coming on with us. Yeah. And it takes some courage, I would think to, to, to put yourself out there and, and, and tell a story that’s authentic and sometimes, that means sharing things that you might not be, you know, always willing to share.
00:13:49:22 – 00:14:14:08
Unknown
I think it takes a willingness and a courage to, to tell your story. Well, certainly it takes the first thing. Is it what story am I going to tell? I’m like, what am I going to talk about? Because accountants fall into that, into that trap of my work should speak for itself. I’m a technically strong accountant, so that should speak volumes about why this is a great firm and why people should come to work for us.
00:14:14:08 – 00:14:40:09
Unknown
But that’s a dangerous myth, because everybody’s saying the same thing. And the hidden career tax, as we say in my game of being invisible in the profession, is you lose relevance, you lose traction, you lose impact, you start to blend in rather than stand out. So we’ve got to understand that expertise alone doesn’t help accountants and firms stand out.
00:14:40:11 – 00:15:00:08
Unknown
It does need some courage, right? You’ve got to start thinking about what? What am I good at? What does an individual what am I good at? What am I passionate about? What wrongs do I want to write? What myths do I want to bust? What do I want to be seen commentating on? What do I want to an a narrative on what domain expertise do I want to talk a little bit about?
00:15:00:10 – 00:15:17:12
Unknown
Yeah, I’m yes. It takes some courage because you might have to turn on your webcam and record some thing or get your phone out, or you might need to do an interview or write an article about something and you don’t know where to start. And that’s where I come in with with my clients in interviewing them and doing that for them.
00:15:17:14 – 00:15:18:09
Unknown
But yes,
00:15:18:09 – 00:15:44:05
Unknown
you’ve got to be bold. You’ve got to be courageous. You’ve got to want to put yourself out there for your own personal brand and that of the firm. And honestly, Brannon, you know this a lot of accountants are not up for that. They don’t want that. They love the accounting work. They love the technical side. They say, lock me in a dark room with a spreadsheet and the numbers, and I’ll do that stuff, and I’m great at it and that’s all I want to do.
00:15:44:05 – 00:16:03:24
Unknown
I don’t want to be a face of the firm. I don’t want to put my thought leadership out there. I don’t have any particular opinions on things. I just love the job. And that’s completely legitimate. But expertise alone doesn’t help accountants stand out. It doesn’t help them tell a better story about why accounting is a great career to move into.
00:16:04:01 – 00:16:06:04
Unknown
It keeps it all behind closed doors.
00:16:06:04 – 00:16:14:04
Unknown
So ultimately, the message is the biggest differentiator of a firm is your people. And beyond that, why your people stay with you,
00:16:14:16 – 00:16:40:06
Unknown
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00:16:40:08 – 00:17:02:08
Unknown
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00:17:02:10 – 00:17:17:16
Unknown
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00:17:17:16 – 00:17:31:00
Unknown
Yeah. You mentioned a couple of, of ways that people can get their voice out in the world. What are some, you know, what are some ways that people can build, influence in that personal brand?
00:17:31:02 – 00:17:54:24
Unknown
Maybe that you haven’t mentioned anything come to mind that helps people really get their voice out there? Well, let’s think about the shop window for accountants. Where are they seen? And this two. Really? If I want to see Brannon part the accountant, if you’re out there, then I’m either going to go to your About Us page on your website where you have a presence.
00:17:55:01 – 00:18:12:12
Unknown
And by the way, that’s an area on a website that talent go to very quickly. And they’re often disappointed because it’s very two dimensional. There might be an image, a photo of you, there might be a bit of text. This is Brandon Poe. He’s part of our tax department, and he’s been with us for years. And he does.
00:18:12:14 – 00:18:39:09
Unknown
He does CrossFit and war reenactments on the weekend. And he lives in Milwaukee with these eight kids or whatever it is. But it’s just and he graduated here, and he’s an expert in these, but that’s on every single sale website. So that’s one of your shop windows is you about his page. The other one is probably LinkedIn. Let’s forget the other socials because accountants generally don’t play for business on Facebook or in store or anything else.
00:18:39:09 – 00:19:03:04
Unknown
That’s a really way out. The accountant running their own firm with a very entrepreneurial mindset. So LinkedIn becomes your other digital shop window. So when you ask how can accountants build a personal brand? They cannot afford to be a well-kept secret. They need to think a little bit more about their US page in about their profile on LinkedIn, to say, is this consistent with who I am and who I want to be?
00:19:03:06 – 00:19:39:14
Unknown
And you’re looking at three pillars of a strong personal brand. You want visibility. It’s no good being a well-kept secret, brilliant as you are. Unique credibility, which is people believe you and the way they believe you with with examples of what you’ve done. And you need some authority as well, which is a track record. Some opinions about your areas of expertise and some thoughts and some insights and some implications and some commentaries of what you see going on.
00:19:39:16 – 00:20:06:21
Unknown
And it’s how they showcase that expertise without coming across as self-promotional, because accountants don’t like that side of it. Today, they’re not comfortable in 210. They’re on trumpet. So there are ways to do it. But ultimately it’s every time you speak and every time you write, that’s a personal branding mechanism. So what are you writing about that might come out in a blog, an article or LinkedIn post of social peace something on your website.
00:20:06:21 – 00:20:33:22
Unknown
Oh, what are you talking about? So you might be out there doing a talk or putting a video out there. Yes, it’s self-promotion, but you’re also promoting your firm and you firm’s domain expertise. But both those shop windows, they’re online branding, aren’t they? Back in the day, you and I are old enough to remember what you’d have to go out networking with a pack of business cards, and you’d have to go to the networking mixers and the lunches and the conferences and everything else.
00:20:33:22 – 00:20:54:11
Unknown
And that’s how you build a brand. That’s how people got to know about you. It was word of mouth. These days, you can build a phenomenal personal brand without ever leaving your office. It’s crazy, but it’s the way it is. So yeah, there’s a little bit of offline and turning up in person. Old school shit. Can somebody hand looking in the whites of their eyes?
00:20:54:11 – 00:21:24:14
Unknown
That’s always good because that’s relationship stuff. But you’ve got to be more intentional with online too. So putting your thought leadership out there, putting your opinions out there that showcase your professionalism, your authenticity, your credibility, your domain expertise, the stuff that you’re passionate about, it needn’t necessarily be an accounting you might be passionate about. Women in accounting, 52% of accountants are women, but only 9% of them are in leadership roles.
00:21:24:16 – 00:21:51:15
Unknown
So it could be that you might be passionate about the brand of accounting. So you talk about why accounting is a great career to be in and you inspire that next generation. You could be passionate about agile private equity or tax reform or it’s not necessarily about your skills. It’s about your crusade. Yeah. And and I think the people who follow their genuine curiosity find those paths.
00:21:51:15 – 00:22:15:19
Unknown
You know, just a great word. Curiosity. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And so no, those are all really good things. And they’re all complicated things like building authority and, it can it can take time. It’s not something you’re going to just, flip a switch and and I mean, you can you can start quickly, but it takes time to build that authority.
00:22:15:19 – 00:22:43:07
Unknown
And yes, it does. And you said it’s complicated. It’s actually not. It requires more consistency. Yeah. So many people we see them do it. Brennan. They’ll stick a post on LinkedIn. And then for six months there’s nothing. And then they’ll pop up somewhere else with another completely random thought. And they think that’s personal branding, but it isn’t so you you do need to be strategic about it and saying, what are the kind of things I enjoy speaking about?
00:22:43:09 – 00:23:09:19
Unknown
What are the things that make my blood boil? What what are the things that annoy me? What are the things that inspire me? And you’ve got all of that going on, and then you can easily wrap a hundred stories or articles or comments around that that you could put out over the years. So that’s been a bit more strategic and then consistent because personal branding profile raising is a non fee paying activity isn’t it.
00:23:09:21 – 00:23:35:02
Unknown
Nobody gets paid to network. Nobody gets paid to write solely to ship. We might get some upside on the results of that if somebody sees it and joins you. Comes for an interview, becomes a client. However, it’s a discretion reactivity. It doesn’t go on the on the billable hour. So you’ve got to be intentional and make the time for it, even if it’s just five, ten minutes a week.
00:23:35:04 – 00:24:07:17
Unknown
It requires discipline. It requires intention, requires a bit of courage, it with Christ, some consistency to do it well. And it’s only those accountants. Maybe I’m talking to top, not the top, but 10% of accountants that build any kind of personal brand that sets them apart, even by 1% from all the others out there. Yeah, because most don’t want to do it and a lot can’t figure out how to do it without sounding self-promotional or like they’re being forced to do it.
00:24:07:19 – 00:24:41:04
Unknown
I mean, in a way, if it’s only a small percentage that are doing it, it’s it seems like ripe for opportunity, like the people who do decide to to go for that probably get really big rewards in the long run. I would think you’re absolutely right, because the strategy for survival is visibility, and the competition is not fierce for being known for something by a certain audience.
00:24:41:04 – 00:25:03:02
Unknown
We’re not talking about here being an influencer, an international influencer. We’re talking here about becoming prominent in a niche, in a business community, in a particular area, in a particular demographic for a particular thing. So you’ve got to pick a lane, you’ve got to think about who your audience is, who do you want to be known by? Who do you want to be seen by?
00:25:03:02 – 00:25:24:10
Unknown
Who do you want to be on the radars of? That’s part of a personal branding plan, because you don’t want to be everything to everyone. That’s impossible, right? Your content would have to be so generic and bland that it wouldn’t hit the mark. So you’ve got to be, to your point earlier, courageous, bold, insane. Now I want to talk about this stuff and I’m going to go deep with this stuff.
00:25:24:12 – 00:25:54:22
Unknown
I know a a guy that’s building a brilliant personal brand, Chris Johnston, right now. And he only does 401 K audits, but boy is he grabbing that niche by the scruff of its neck. Yeah, and commenting on on the ins and outs of that as he builds his firm and he’s got I weaving into that. And, he recently offered $50,000 as a sign on bonus for someone to join his firm.
00:25:54:24 – 00:26:14:10
Unknown
Wow. Now that kind of thing is unheard of. It’s very counterintuitive and it’s extremely bold, but he got some great press out of it. But he was so looking for the right fit for his firm that he was willing to do that and invest long term in the people he was taking on. So yes, it yeah it did.
00:26:14:11 – 00:26:43:22
Unknown
There are benefits to doing it and there’s not much competition to doing it. And even if there are don’t, 10% of accountants might still be hundreds and thousands of accountants across the planet. However, how many are talking about your niche, your domain expertise, your sector, your area of specialty? Yeah, there are so many ways to carve up a story where you can go really deep with it and become that standout voice of authority in that area.
00:26:43:24 – 00:27:20:04
Unknown
Yeah, I want to, I want to shift a little bit towards change. And one thing I’ll mention is, you know, I think the biggest, obstacle for people to change, maybe the biggest obstacle to focus on their personal brand, like the conversation we’re having today is a lack of capacity to time. Not only does it take courage to share your story and to and to focus on these things, but it takes courage to say no to the things that are basically getting in the way of you building the practice that you want.
00:27:20:06 – 00:27:47:03
Unknown
And, I think saying no to things is often the very thing that starts you on a path towards change. You’ve got to create that capacity in order to create change, because, you know, in order to devote yourself to something that takes a consistent effort, that takes, a consistent focus. You’ve got to free yourself up first. And I find that that’s usually the biggest obstacle that I see.
00:27:47:05 – 00:28:22:00
Unknown
Accountants facing. That’s very insightful. You’re absolutely right. When we talk about the state of mind of current accountants or even the state of the profession generally, we would use phrases like frazzled or overwhelmed or overloaded or bombarded, and there’s so much accountants have to think about beyond all the regulatory change and legal implications and the political ramifications of Trump coming in and all of that stuff that clients expectations are ever increasing and what clients thought was good yesterday.
00:28:22:00 – 00:28:40:02
Unknown
He’s only average today. So there’s all of that going on. And then yeah, I’m super busy. I’ve got busy tax season, I’ve got deadlines. And then you expect me to spend half an hour a week writing stuff that I’m not going to get paid for. It’s not going to add to my revenue targets. Why should I do that?
00:28:40:04 – 00:29:04:09
Unknown
So to your point, Brandon, it is it’s a longer term play, isn’t it? Yeah. Let me be famous tomorrow. Let me play a longer game so that I’m I’m, I’m going to be famous for, for whatever that means in six, 12 months time. Yeah. You got to get off the treadmill first. That’s the first step is you got to get off the the ever increase selling speed of the treadmill.
00:29:04:11 – 00:29:21:17
Unknown
Have you heard the story about the, the Chinese emperor back in the day? He’s, he wanted a lavish garden built. And he said to all of these thousands of gardeners, this is what I want built. This is how I want it built. And it took them three years to work to the plans, and he went to have a look at it.
00:29:21:17 – 00:29:44:05
Unknown
Once they finished it and he said, wait, something’s wrong here. I asked for a row of cedar trees to be built down the sides of this path, and they said, Emperor Cedar trees take thousands of years to grow. And his answer was, well, we better start now. And that gives us that story of the best time to plant a tree is many years ago.
00:29:44:07 – 00:30:12:24
Unknown
The second best time to plant a tree is now, and the third best time to plant a tree is tomorrow. So you’ve got to stop. Even if it’s baby steps and you’ve got to have some intention, some purpose about it, to say, okay, I’m going to give this three, six months or I’m going to devote this to my personal brand and the brand of the firm and my public profile, because I know that, just being good at what I do is not going to be good enough.
00:30:12:24 – 00:30:36:07
Unknown
And I know that thought leadership is a game changer in accounting, whether I’m selling me or the profession. It starts with an intention and getting over the overwhelm, but don’t really make time for what’s important. There’s a great quote brand and by a guy called John Maxwell who’s a leadership guru, and he says, say no to the good so you can say yes to the great.
00:30:36:09 – 00:31:04:11
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. It says those guardrails, I think that are, you know, for whatever reason, lacking in a lot of firms management style or. Yeah, I just think that’s what you say. No to might be more important than what you say yes to. So I have sometimes who’s driving it. So I had a call just before you and I came on this interview, with a guy that, was in a 30 person firm.
00:31:04:11 – 00:31:29:21
Unknown
He’s a partner in a firm in Milwaukee. And he said, I am the sole voice, the external voice of the firm. And I know I need to be more public in my approach. And I said, well, is that coming from you wanting to do that or you’ve been forced to do that because of the situation that you’re coming into, or somebody telling you you have to do it because you know what it’s like if you’re doing it because you have to this there’s less fun in that.
00:31:29:21 – 00:31:54:12
Unknown
There’s less incentive to do that. Yeah. But if you really value and see the benefits of being a little bit more public, the increased influence, the increased profile, the increased opportunities, the increased career autonomy and flexibility and choice, the increased power with which you can turn work down because you’ve got higher quality work coming in. Right. That freedom that these are the benefits.
00:31:54:13 – 00:32:18:22
Unknown
Once you see those, you’re more incentivized to say, okay, this is worth doing right? Right now, I agree, but I’m going to give something up to do it, I appreciate it. You’ve now got extra time in your day once you’ve made that decision. But yeah, we prioritize, don’t we? What’s important? We make a little bit of time for it and it doesn’t need to be ours.
00:32:18:24 – 00:32:48:13
Unknown
You can make a splash with five, ten, 20 minutes a week. Yep, yep. Well, what do you think are, shaping the profession right now? What do you see? What do you see? Some of the drivers that are really shaping the profession. If we zoom out a little bit. Well, here’s a question for you. Who do you feel is responsible for the brand of accounting or the brand of accounting?
00:32:48:15 – 00:33:16:20
Unknown
Well, I think a lot of people want it to be, the organizations like the CPA. Yeah, the profession. But yeah, I think that ultimately it’s up to the individuals in the profession. And we have to, take more responsibility. We have to, maybe get more involved with students, you know, that are considering this as a profession.
00:33:16:20 – 00:33:45:17
Unknown
I think we have to do more individually. And maybe we need to get more involved with organizations, our state board, state organizations, and our national organizations, so that we have some influence there. But, you know, if we don’t like what they’re doing, right, we might need to, I think I think it’s just the profession. I think it’s a collective effort of everyone.
00:33:45:17 – 00:34:06:12
Unknown
And so I think, I think that’s who should ultimately be responsible. I don’t know. I never been asked that question before. That’s a good I, I welcome to my world. I asked that question a lot and I get really varied answers. Brennan. Some people like you, they lead with the professional bodies, the state societies, because they’re at the top.
00:34:06:14 – 00:34:26:20
Unknown
But what is their agenda thereafter? Memberships. And they run CPA type stuff, and they’ve got to look after people’s technical status. But the brand of the profession, perhaps. I’ve interviewed a Corey Ramsey, was the chair of the CPA, and, he admitted that the profession has a, has an image problem like you did at the beginning.
00:34:26:22 – 00:34:51:06
Unknown
So that is one of the big challenges. But in in terms of who’s responsible, certainly the state societies, but they’re run state by state, by and large, with their own micro agendas. You’ve got your big ones like you’re New York and you’re Pennsylvania and your California and your, and your others. But to your point, is it everyone’s job, the problem with it being everyone’s job, he said.
00:34:51:08 – 00:35:09:13
Unknown
But like climate change, people don’t do anything about it on an individual basis because they feel everyone else is going to do it. So an accountant says, why should I put out some thought leadership about why accounting is a great career choice? It’s everyone’s job. Then everyone else should be doing it. And I’m too busy to do it.
00:35:09:15 – 00:35:29:12
Unknown
So yeah, there’s an element of responsibility for everyone, for the future, the profession. But you and I both know that 75% of accountants are at or close to retirement age, and a lot of them, frankly, don’t care what’s coming after them. They’re looking at an equity part and a payout on their retirement. And they’ve been in this game a long time, and they’re ready to get out.
00:35:29:14 – 00:35:47:03
Unknown
And that’s why private equity is easing. A lot of that transition for them. Now some genuinely do care about what’s coming after them. And they care about legacy and they care about the new generation coming through. And they want to they want to keep that going. However, it ultimately comes down to it is a challenge for the brand.
00:35:47:03 – 00:36:10:06
Unknown
Less people are coming into accounting and taking accounting majors. People are retiring thick and fast out of the game and even amidst the ranks at senior and junior roles, people are coming out of the profession and going into industry, going into tech, going into doing their own thing, going out of accounting altogether for many reasons. So we could all do a better job.
00:36:10:08 – 00:36:34:05
Unknown
I could I’m playing my role. You’re playing your role. You’re amplifying what’s great. That gives accountants an edge and some kind of flight plan, some kind of strategy to be better today than they were yesterday. And you’re magnificent at that, you know, shining a light on what is a good career choice. But you can only do what you can do, so you can all tell a better story.
00:36:34:05 – 00:37:02:15
Unknown
I mean, I think if you build a good firm in a, in a way that’s doing your part, if you build a really good firm that offers a good career for people and you’re offering services that help the business community, that genuinely help your clients, then you’re maybe that’s your part. You know? And that’s enough. That’s great because there’s a lot of firms that aren’t run very well.
00:37:02:15 – 00:37:29:07
Unknown
So, you know, but if I challenge you on that brand of nuts, isn’t that what accounting firms are supposed to do anyway? Why is that in any way? Exceptional accounting firms are supposed to run good firms, but they don’t. So. So the thing is, is like and and everybody can always improve. I believe they’re always even if you’re running a great firm and I’ve seen a lot of great firms.
00:37:29:09 – 00:37:51:14
Unknown
Yeah they can they can always take it to another level. They can be better leaders. They can be better mentors. They can be, better advisors. They can, you know, they can always be. There’s always room for improvement. And so that’s great I love that. You’re absolutely right. They can be better in all those roles. And if they do that they will end up running a better firm.
00:37:51:16 – 00:38:13:20
Unknown
Yeah. And that will end up shining a stronger light on the profession as a career of choice. That makes great sense. Yeah. I mean, when I was a kid coming up and when I chose accounting, I went to the person that told me to become a CPA was an entrepreneur by I. I told I was like 17 years old and I, I met this guy for breakfast.
00:38:13:20 – 00:38:35:11
Unknown
I just ran into him and I, I looked up to him and he was a very successful entrepreneur in our community. He had a lot of different businesses. Go on. And, you know, he he, I asked him, I said, what should I do? I want to learn about business. I want to be exposed to a lot of different businesses so that I can one day have my own business.
00:38:35:13 – 00:38:59:14
Unknown
And he thought about it for a minute, because go and become a CPA. You’ll get to see all the different, you know, ways that people run businesses. Now, my guess is he had a good CPA. He had respect for his CPA. And so that’s just one example of how a good CPA affected an entrepreneur, affected a young person choosing a profession.
00:38:59:16 – 00:39:22:18
Unknown
And there are so many good stories like that that we don’t hear often enough. But you’re right that they are game changers. They are, particularly throughout the pandemic where businesses were trying to keep the lights on. The accountants were superheroes without capes. They were the guardians of business, keeping things going and trying to make sense of all the crazy stuff that was going on.
00:39:22:20 – 00:39:56:05
Unknown
And they were exceptional. But again, they didn’t tell that story enough. They didn’t articulate well enough not just that they were making a difference, but how they were making a difference and and ultimately how that was impacting businesses. So work to be done. But a great time to be in accounting, a great profession to shout about. And if accountants to wrap this up, would just be a bit more intentional about branding themselves, a little bit more about being a bit more vocal, a bit more visible, a bit more out there.
00:39:56:07 – 00:40:29:02
Unknown
Yeah, not a social media tart and a and a diva and be an influencer. No. Just speak with authority and passion about what you’re doing and what you’re interested in. And that will move the dial. Yeah. Well, speaking of stories, I like to get a story from our guest. If they have something that’s kind of a little, maybe a little humorous, and I think, you know, I talked a little bit before we started recording about your story and,
00:40:29:04 – 00:40:52:03
Unknown
Yeah. Do you want to share that? Of course, it’s not work related. But it’s something I’m comfortable now being on the record for. So a few years ago, my wife and I, we’ve got two lovely daughters, Georgia and Madison, once married here in the UK. She’s 22. The other is studying in North Carolina, criminal justice and really enjoying the US system.
00:40:52:05 – 00:41:16:21
Unknown
She’s got a US marine boyfriend and 12 tattoos. I don’t know who I take to court for that. Is that Trump’s fault? Is that your fault? Brandon can tell you. But anyway, she’s having a blast. So we got to that point where we decided that we didn’t want any more children. So you then come to that conversation about birth control and I, I took one for the team and said, I will get a vasectomy.
00:41:16:23 – 00:41:37:06
Unknown
I think you call him that over there. I hope that you do. That translates. So, and I’m terrible with needles. So this was a big deal for me because I knew there would be some cutting and snipping and pricks involved punching. So, so we went through the the process. You have some interviews, people check the. Is this really The Andy Show?
00:41:37:06 – 00:41:59:04
Unknown
You don’t want any more kids? This is a very final operation, if you like. And, we said, yeah, we’ll go ahead. And we were appointed to the one doctor in our whole county that did these exclusively. All he did was vasectomies. And that’s the guy you want, isn’t it? If you want an expert, you want the guy that only does that, and he does thousands of them a year, and he can do them in his sleep.
00:41:59:10 – 00:42:26:08
Unknown
And he’s the absolute top notch surgeon in that procedure. That’s the guy you want. So we booked in the procedure, but I got a phone call from him a few days before to say, we’ve come up against a little problem. There’s a nurse that I use in all of my operations and have them for the last 15 years, and she knows exactly what I do so that I’m 100% concentrated in the theater, in the operating theater.
00:42:26:10 – 00:42:44:22
Unknown
The problem is she’s your neighbor. And it was a lovely lady called Karen that lived opposite me, and I knew she was a nurse, but I had no idea what kind of nurse she was. But now I find out. So this guy said, look, I if you’re comfortable using Karen, that’s great, but I appreciate it’s delicate. She’s a neighbor.
00:42:44:22 – 00:43:06:21
Unknown
You might not want to. I can get a nurse from across town. And I’m thinking I don’t want this doctor to be with the nurse that he doesn’t know that he’s never worked with before. Performing a very delicate procedure. So I said, listen, give me a few days. Let me talk to Karen. And so I went across the road to Karen, and she opened the door to me and said, I’ve been expecting you.
00:43:06:23 – 00:43:29:13
Unknown
When I saw your name on the roster coming up and your address, she said, be. I’ll be honest with you, it makes no difference to me. It’s just a procedure. I’ve done it thousands of times. And if it’s any consolation, Rob, I’ve also done The Vasectomies of Jim at number 47, Gary at number 64 and Trevor at number 42.
00:43:29:13 – 00:43:53:21
Unknown
So once you said that, I thought, listen, I don’t need to be a diva about this. This is just the procedure you should do in the job. I said, if it’s fine with you, Karen, it’s fine with me. So we went back to the doctor and said, we’ll, we’ll go for it. So I did, and, and then the moment of truth, it was one after the operation, a few days after when I had to look Karen in the eyes were picking up our milk from the doorstep.
00:43:53:23 – 00:44:14:15
Unknown
But the ultimate professional she was, she never mentioned it, and I never mentioned it. And she didn’t give me a little wink or anything else like that, even though she’s seen me in my most delicate position. So, we have a laugh about that now. Yeah. It was. It’s good that he told you, because I wonder if, I wonder if some of your other neighbors, were surprised by that.
00:44:14:20 – 00:44:33:12
Unknown
That much in. Oh, I never asked that, actually. But you’re right. It’s good that he’s professional about it. And I’m sure, Karen, the first time it happened where one of the neighbors on her road came up, she would have had to flag it up as a conflict of interest, perhaps. Yeah, perhaps. There you go. That’s my story, for what it’s worth.
00:44:33:12 – 00:45:01:14
Unknown
But I love it. One more last question before I let you go. Books. Do you have any book recommendations for our audience? My favorite book of the last few years has been Deep Work by Cal Newport. He’s written some great books, but I love deep work because essentially the message is that anything you do that’s meaningful needs to be distraction free, and you’ve got to set up your schedule to do that.
00:45:01:14 – 00:45:24:01
Unknown
Otherwise, anything meaningful and of high value is not going to come out from you. And we live in such a distracted, attention diffused world that it it takes some effort and some intention to set up your calendar such that you, if you’ve got anything meaningful, you need to do it. And let’s face it, it’s the meaningful work that counts.
00:45:24:03 – 00:45:42:10
Unknown
If you want to do that, then you need to, and you call it deep work of the highest value. Then you need to set up your calendar accordingly. So that has been my book of choice, my go to Brannan for the last few years now, and I’ve not been able to shake that. That’s a great it’s a great book.
00:45:42:10 – 00:46:05:07
Unknown
And, you know, we’re in an age of more distraction than probably we’ve ever had to deal with. And, so we we need to go back to the remembering how important that distraction free time is. All right, Rob. Well, this has been awesome. What’s the best way for people to follow you online? I’m a LinkedIn guy, as you would expect.
00:46:05:07 – 00:46:24:23
Unknown
Brennan. It’s where I’m most active. It’s where I have most of my conversations. So, checking out Rob Brown on LinkedIn, the guy in Nottingham, that will come up. And of course, our Accounting Influences podcast, all of those episodes are helping accountants to just what we’ve talked about today to how do they be more influential, how did they build more of a personal brand?
00:46:25:00 – 00:46:42:09
Unknown
And we might take a topic like private equity Tree or something else and say, here’s what you need to know in your role to have more of a voice. And ultimately the profession. Branding is a fight for relevance. We want to stay relevant. We want to stay front of mind to our clients who want to be seen as doing a great job.
00:46:42:13 – 00:47:01:06
Unknown
We want to be attractive to the new generations coming in. So, our podcast helps us to do that. And, my LinkedIn profile, as I said, is the right place to go to. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much, Rob. Enjoyed our conversation today. And, I’m, I’m sure our listeners get a lot from this.
00:47:01:08 – 00:47:22:06
Unknown
It’s been brilliant. And it’s great to meet somebody like you. I mean, we’ve known each other. Well, no problem, but to to talk about this stuff with somebody who equally cares deeply about this. And he’s playing their part. What you do on your show is tremendous. And, you’ve been doing this a long time and shining a light, so keep on rocking the free world as we say.
00:47:22:08 – 00:47:24:15
Unknown
Thank you Rob. Thank you. Rob.
00:47:24:15 – 00:47:39:06
Unknown
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